Classified Ads Photo Gallery Message Boards Sugarbush Directory Sugarmaker Journals Live Chat News & Events
  #1  
Old April 14th, 2019, 10:01 PM
Member
Producer


 
Location: Meadows Of Dan, Virginia
Number of Taps: 200
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
Thanked 0 Times
 
Default Putting my red maples on vacuum

Still pretty new at this so learning new things everyday even though the season has been over here for a few weeks. I tap sugar maples on buckets for the place I work because they won't let me set up gravity or vacuum. So I'm wanting to put the reds on my own property on vacuum. I have several that have run decent on buckets in the past. I've heard on gravity they're too finicky and that vacuum is required. Does hooking them up on vacuum if they're on a super steep slope have the effect of both? Probably a dumb question but I can't find any info on it.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 15th, 2019, 11:17 AM
Maple Flats's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Oneida, NY
Number of Taps: 850
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 656
Thanked 175 Times
 
Default

With Red maples vacuum help a lot. That vacuum can come from a mechanical pump or from gravity. To get good vacuum on gravity you need to use 3/16 tubing and you need good elevation drop. That drop can be a long gradual slope or a steep slope, it is the total fall in elevation that does the work. Gravity runs for free and never breaks down.
How many taps are you thinking? What do you have to boil on? Do you have anything to hold the sap in between collection and boiling?
Read all you can find on 3/16 tubing, it has advantages and disadvantages. I can have 25-35 taps on a lateral (in this case the 3/16 tubing going from tree to tree and then to a mainline or a collection tank. (compare that to 5/16 laterals where 5 is the goal and never over 10. In fact several of the top producers try to have 3 tap/lateral on 5/16 and mechanical vacuum. With the 3/16 30' or more drop in elevation is desired, any taps above that will get maximum vacuum, any less than 30' drop will get a lower vacuum. A big disadvantage on 3/16 is the cleaning of the tubing, it is a must or you will get plugged tees blocking sap flow. I have found too that deer chew the 3/16 more than they do on 5/16. That might just be the softness of the tubing too, much of my 5/16 is Leader 30P which is harder than the 3/16 I use from CDL. They chewed lots of the 3/16, but only a little of the 5/16. They also chewed less of my 5/16 in a stiffer tubing from CDL.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 15th, 2019, 07:44 PM
Member
Producer


 
Location: Meadows Of Dan, Virginia
Number of Taps: 200
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
Thanked 0 Times
 
Default

Thanks for the reply and info. I've done a lot of research on 3/16 tubing and gravity systems. I have three hollows I want to do but I'm only going to do one next season to keep from being overwhelmed. Each one has 100 plus reds. And each one has tremendous slope. 200 foot elevation drop from the top tree to collection point. I would love to just do gravity alone since I live off the grid. I guess my question revolved more around mechanical vacuum on a steep slope. Is there any adavantage to that? Versus mechanical vacuum on flatter terrain? I wasn't sure how well reds would run on gravity alone. I ran a 2x4 divided pan last year with float box. Felt like I got pretty good at it so I may go bigger this next year. I do have access to walk in cooler and freezer so I feel lucky in that regard. And unlimited free 55 gallon water barrels for storing. I feel lucky in that regard as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 15th, 2019, 08:36 PM
Maple Flats's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Oneida, NY
Number of Taps: 850
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 656
Thanked 175 Times
 
Default

If you have that much drop I'd just do 3/16. If you do go with the mechanical vacuum, it will help the lower taps on 3/16, but the higher taps will gain nothing. Based on your elevation and the barometric pressure on any given day, there is a maximum vacuum you can attain, adding a pump will not improve that one bit.
If you decide to go old school (pre-3/16 method you will weed mainlines and a conductor line plus a bunch of saddles. Then you would run mainlines climbing the contour lines at about 2-3% and run the 5/16 lines down the steep slopes. You would need a mainline every 100', maybe half that and a saddle to join the laterals to the mainline. Mainlines are usually wire tied to steel support wire. Lots of designing and work to get what your situation could do much cheaper using 3/16 tubing and no support wires.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 15th, 2019, 09:30 PM
Member
Producer


 
Location: Meadows Of Dan, Virginia
Number of Taps: 200
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
Thanked 0 Times
 
Default

Yeah I'm all about gravity if it works on reds. I guess The only way to know for sure is to do it. All 100 plus trees would be 30 feet to 200 feet above the collection point so maybe it will work. Has to be better than buckets if anything.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 16th, 2019, 05:54 AM
Member
Producer


 
Location: Jefferson, OH
Number of Taps: 10,500
Join Date: Apr 2012
Classified Ads: 1
Posts: 176
Thanked 32 Times
  View my ads  
Default

One of the best things we ever did was put our red maples on vacuum. It is a new world once you do that. They run sooner than the Sugar maples and the sap turns bitter sooner. The other downside is sugar content is so low compared to sugar maple. But they do run well under vacuum.
__________________
From 250 buckets and a 2X6...
To 10,500 taps and a 4X14...
With lots of lumps to show for it...
Thank you to the maple community forums!
www.bissellmaplefarm.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 16th, 2019, 07:58 PM
Maple Flats's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Oneida, NY
Number of Taps: 850
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 656
Thanked 175 Times
 
Default

Not all reds are lower sugar. Many of mine run close to what my sugars are. Most of that depends on how much of a crown the reds vs the Sugars have, leaves make sugar.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 17th, 2019, 12:50 AM
3rdgen.maple's Avatar
Sugarbush.Info Administrator
Manufacturer
 
Location: Altmar, NY
Number of Taps: 2000
Join Date: Oct 2011
Journals: 9
Photos: 29
Posts: 6,355
Thanked 961 Times
  View my photos   Read my journals
Default

The majority of my trees are red maples. I have one setup thats strictly all sugar maples. Believe it or not that woods is first one to give up every single year. My other setups with reds mixed in will produce a week longer than that woods and the releasers are within throwing distance apart. Reds can produce good sugar content, thinning helps those crowns grow.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 17th, 2019, 05:15 AM
Member
Producer


 
Location: Meadows Of Dan, Virginia
Number of Taps: 200
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 20
Thanked 0 Times
 
Default

Well I just got the word that I will be allowed to put the majority of the sugars where I work on gravity. This is a game changer and upgrades are definitely coming. But that bill will be on them not me haha. I'm still going to put one of my Red filled hollows on gravity. I have this amazing ability to just touch something mechanical and have it instantly break down so if I can stay away from vacuum pumps and releasers I think I would be better off. How do the gallons per tap with reds on gravity compare with sugars on gravity in similar conditions? I know it varies but average maybe.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 17th, 2019, 08:47 AM
Maple Flats's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Oneida, NY
Number of Taps: 850
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 656
Thanked 175 Times
 
Default

Reds on gravity generally produce far less than sugars on gravity. Even though no pump, use the gravity on the reds with the fall in elevation generate the vacuum, using the 3/16 tubing, gravity never quits and you will not be able to break it. For the trees on the land you got permission to do on gravity, look into a simple diaphragm pump. There are loads of producers using them and they all gain sap over just conventional gravity.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
Reply With Quote
Reply  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 

The total tap count of our members is now: 2,738,641

Copyright ©2009~2019 Sugarbush Info