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Old August 21st, 2018, 09:59 PM
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Default vacuum pumps (guzzler)

I am wanting to add vacuum to my one sugarbush and possibly my second one this year. I have seen a lot of releasors on facebook for sale. But I know nothing about setting up vacuum. I have 2 bushes that have about 300 taps each. Someone that mentioned that I should go with the guzzler pumps. Looking for input. Thanks Rick
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2.5ft. by 8ft raised flue arch, preheater and hood
600 taps in 2 different sugar bushes 300 each. All on gravity. approx. 75 buckets in other woods.
12 ft by 36 ft sugarhouse
2018 bought 250 gal. RO.
Tapping 200 taps at neighbors all on buckets and gravity
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  #2  
Old August 22nd, 2018, 09:54 AM
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Unless you have potential to add more taps 300 is not very cost efective to use a vacuum pump and releaser set up. If you can find a used releaser that is in good condition it would be nice or buy a single from Ed Soble (he has ads in the classifieds on here). He builds good releasers and sells them for less than the big guys. I have one of his double horizontal releasers.
If you don't find a releaser at about $800 or less, I think a guzzler type pump will give you more bang for your buck. A Guzzler however is not real good without a tight system, leaks must be fixed or you lose. They also are poor if you need a sap ladder in the system. But if you have a way to design the system without sap ladders and keep the system tight, they get good performance. If you consider that method, they need no releaser. Try getting info and prices direct from Bosworth, they are the manufacturer.
That type of pump even works well running off a 12V deep cycle battery, but you need 2 good batteries, one on charge while the other runs the pump.
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1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
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  #3  
Old August 22nd, 2018, 09:53 PM
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Thanks that helps a lot couple other questions on releasors. I see there are two different kinds. Does it matter which one you get. I will definitely look into Ed Soble. On the cost part of this, I have been told that vacuum will double my sap amounts. Is this true? I don't have any more trees to up my tap count in this sugarbush. Thanks again for all of your help
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2.5ft. by 8ft raised flue arch, preheater and hood
600 taps in 2 different sugar bushes 300 each. All on gravity. approx. 75 buckets in other woods.
12 ft by 36 ft sugarhouse
2018 bought 250 gal. RO.
Tapping 200 taps at neighbors all on buckets and gravity
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  #4  
Old August 23rd, 2018, 08:51 AM
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Vacuum will add 5-7% more sap for every inch of vacuum, and it is like compound interest. Each inch the vacuum increases the sap goes up 5-7% over what it was at the 1" lower level.
A guzzler type pump can give about 20-22" of vacuum in a tight system, when any sap is flowing. The vacuum is less until the diaphragms are actually pumping some sap.
On old diary vacuum pumps if you do them right a vane pump can get 20-24? inches, but they were made for 15" so you need to address heat and oil. On an old piston dairy pump you can get 24-27" if the rings and valves are good, again, heat may need to be addressed. I run an old BB4 piston pump and I get 26-27" on 225 taps last season, going up to about 300 taps next season and possibly 325.
If you get a vacuum pump made for maple you can get anywhere from 25" to 29+", just read the manufacturer's data. Each will tell you what their pump will do.
The diaphragm pumps only give their top vacuum when pumping sap, but they will give some vacuum even with no sap flow, in other words, they can be run dry. However they do not like ice. Ice flowing into the diaphragm (as frozen lines just start to flow) can damage the diaphragm.
Each of those vacuum levels are generalizations and they pertain to std. air pressure at sea level. As your elevation goes up or your air pressure drops you have a lower maximum vacuum possible. It's all related to the air pressure.
Once you get a vacuum pump, the members on here can help you learn how to maximize the vacuum possible from that pump.
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1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
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Old August 23rd, 2018, 09:56 PM
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thanks so much for all of your help. another question? Does all releasors have to sit on top of your collection tank. Right now my main line is running into my tank by gravity but if I hook up a releasor and set it on top, it will be higher than my main line. Thanks Rick
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2.5ft. by 8ft raised flue arch, preheater and hood
600 taps in 2 different sugar bushes 300 each. All on gravity. approx. 75 buckets in other woods.
12 ft by 36 ft sugarhouse
2018 bought 250 gal. RO.
Tapping 200 taps at neighbors all on buckets and gravity
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 24th, 2018, 09:46 AM
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Is there any place near the tank that is lower? If yes, move the tank. If not, you may need to re-slope the mainline. What slope do you have on it, feet drop/100'? As long as a mainline has downward slope it will flow. If you have 2% (2'/100') you can easily raise it a foot for every 100'. If you need to be like it sets, a diaphragm pump or a sap ladder may be in your future. If you can avoid a sap ladder, do that. As far as releasers go, the shortest I have found so far is an Ed Soble horizontal releaser. It is just 18 or 20" high from the bottom to the sap inlets on the manifold. Another option might be to dig a hole to set your tank in, but be careful of potential flooding.
I have a 1000 gal tank that sets 5.5' down in an old cellar hole and it never floods, but be mindful of drifting snow. The first year after a big wind, I went to check on the tank, it was totally buried. It took 3 of use an hour to dig out enough to be able the run the vacuum pump and get to the valve so the tank could be emptied. I then put snow fence out about 40' to the windward side and that helped a lot but was not perfect. The issue there is that a big open field to the north west goes at least 1200' and it is wider the farther away it goes so thus it multiplies the wind in a funnel effect. Only about 150' wide at the end near the tank and well over 1000' wide at the other end.
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1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
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  #7  
Old August 27th, 2018, 12:38 PM
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Thanks so much for your help. I definitely want to set up vacuum on one of my bushes is not both. Your input was very helpful.
__________________
2.5ft. by 8ft raised flue arch, preheater and hood
600 taps in 2 different sugar bushes 300 each. All on gravity. approx. 75 buckets in other woods.
12 ft by 36 ft sugarhouse
2018 bought 250 gal. RO.
Tapping 200 taps at neighbors all on buckets and gravity
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 5th, 2018, 09:07 PM
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HI Maple Flatts, Do you have any pictures of your vacuum setups. Do you need to keep the vacuum pump/releasor from freezing. Do you keep them set up year round or just set them up for syrup season. I see you are Just off of route 90, How far are you from binghamton NY, I am about one hour from binghamton. Was wondering if you are set up for a visit or not. Thanks so much for your help.
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2.5ft. by 8ft raised flue arch, preheater and hood
600 taps in 2 different sugar bushes 300 each. All on gravity. approx. 75 buckets in other woods.
12 ft by 36 ft sugarhouse
2018 bought 250 gal. RO.
Tapping 200 taps at neighbors all on buckets and gravity
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 6th, 2018, 11:09 AM
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Redneck, I am about 2 hrs north of Binghamton. Email me at dave@cnymaple.com and we can arrange a visit. I have nothing fancy.
I leave mine out all year, but clean and lube the releaser after the season, before the season and daily in season. I run my vacuum anytime the sap is running. When it starts I turn it on and then shut it off about 2 hrs after freeze up. It is all done manually but I'm thinking I will start shutting down by a temperature controller this year. May shut off at 29 or 30F.
I have no pictures, but I could get some if you really need them.
My vacuum is an old dairy piston pump (BB4) and my releaser is a Ed Sobles double horizontal. Ed has pictures of them in the classified section on this forum. My releaser it mounted over a barrel cut in half horizontally and is supported on an aluminum frame attached to a structure built to hold the releaser. It has a roof over it to help keep snow or rain off it. The BB4 has a 240V AC motor, run on grid power with solar back up.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com

Last edited by Maple Flats; September 6th, 2018 at 11:23 AM.
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