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Old February 26th, 2017, 10:20 AM
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For those of you guys that are running the smaller RO's like the 125,200,250,and 300 units. How many hours can you run these units before you have to shut down and do a quick rinse on them?
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Old February 26th, 2017, 01:53 PM
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Early season I can run 4-7 hrs before a rinse. Late season maybe 3-5 hrs. My RO runs at about 275 PSI and shuts off on high pressure if it hits 300.
Even early season, if the sap gets too warm the time is less. The way I have mine set up, I just have to close one valve as I open another and I'm changing from sap in to permeate in. If mine starts acting sluggish, I can switch for 4-5 minutes to permeate to flush the membrane, then I can open the reconcentrate valve as I close the permeate valve and I'm removing the extra water I put into the concentrate. While I haven't needed to do the quick rinse like that this year yet, at some point I might. I do however switch from sap in, to concentrate in every hour or 2 and then as the head tank gets low or if the flow gets slower, I switch back to sap in. I do that a few times in a normal day if I have much sap.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 04:05 PM
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This is my first year with an ro it's a micro elite 160GPH. I just did my startup rinse and soap wash and rinse etc cycles, I am not ready to concentrate. Should be this week. Maple flats what are you running for permeate out and concentrate in for Gpm? I am gonna start out easy at 50/50
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Old February 26th, 2017, 04:12 PM
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It depends on the sap as to what I can run. If the sap nis perfectly clear and is between 38-40 degrees I can run 1.1 GPM concentrate and 3.0-3.1 GPM permeate, which gives me about 250 GPH total flow. Temperature is thew big killer, if the sap is at 33-34 those numbers fall to a 210-220 total flow and if the sap is not clear it can drop a little more. If the sap is at 45 degrees and still clear I can get a total of about 275 GPH with 1.3 GPM concentrate.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 04:17 PM
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Ok I really have no idea what to expect for me first year with ro not gonna push it too hard
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Old February 26th, 2017, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnagel View Post
For those of you guys that are running the smaller RO's like the 125,200,250,and 300 units. How many hours can you run these units before you have to shut down and do a quick rinse on them?
Like flats said sap and temp make all the difference but if you can get ahead of the evaporator a half hour or so doing a quick rinse is easier than cooking all night long
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Old February 27th, 2017, 07:25 AM
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I agree with you don't have to cook all night long that would be awesome. I am just trying to find out what the numbers to see the amount of time it would take to run some of these large runs through an RO. For two reasons 1. To use it as a selling point to get everyone on board so we can buy one. 2nd to size the correct one so as not to buy to small of a unit when the time comes.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 09:23 AM
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I have a single post 4x40 XLE. This season I am running at 0.61 gpm permeate and 0.22 gpm concentrate. It's giving me 13.2 gallons per hour of concentrate that is anywhere from 7-9% sugar. It's perfect for me because my rig would be maxed out at 13 gph (in fact, it probably never goes that fast). The rest of the flow is being recirculated.

It seems to me the best scenario is an RO that gives you a good concentrate % at a rate that's close to what you boil.

I start the RO and as soon as I have about 10 gallons of concentrate, I am lighting a fire. I usually have about an hour after the RO is done to boil including cool down.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 10:41 AM
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Urban I would like to buy a 250 gph unit that can get to 8% or higher in a single pass. That way I figure with the arch that I have when the pans are already sweetened I could start the RO and it would would only slightly out produce the cooker. At 1 gallon a minute of concentrate that would be 60 gallons of concentrate an hour. The arch boils between 30 to 40 gallons a hour. So after the RO is done if I am really far behind I could just recirculate in the head tank also to reduce my boiling time. Or if there isn't much left I simply could start running rinse and wash cycles while finishing what's left in the head tank. On say a 800 gallon day I am thinking that it would likely take me about 6 hrs from start up to shut down for the day. Am I even close on this?
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Little sugar house has a 28x66 flat pan.
Big Sugar house has a 3x8 pan with dividers and auf.
Two Yamaha Grizzly atv's.
All taps on drop tubes into buckets.
Smoky Lake Filter/Finisher/Filter.
Smoky Lake Crescendo Auto Draw.
Brother-in-law for a partner in crime.
Wife and 4 kids.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Radnagel View Post
Urban I would like to buy a 250 gph unit that can get to 8% or higher in a single pass. That way I figure with the arch that I have when the pans are already sweetened I could start the RO and it would would only slightly out produce the cooker. At 1 gallon a minute of concentrate that would be 60 gallons of concentrate an hour. The arch boils between 30 to 40 gallons a hour. So after the RO is done if I am really far behind I could just recirculate in the head tank also to reduce my boiling time. Or if there isn't much left I simply could start running rinse and wash cycles while finishing what's left in the head tank. On say a 800 gallon day I am thinking that it would likely take me about 6 hrs from start up to shut down for the day. Am I even close on this?
I think if you figure 75% water removal on 800 gallons of sap at 2%, that leaves you with 200 gallons at 8%. That's 5.71 hours of boiling at an average of 35 gph. Maybe round up to 6 hours with warm up/cool down. So yes I think you are right on.

With a higher starting brix, your concentrate will be higher than 8%.

Certainly recirculating after all the raw sap is done would be a possibility.

I am no expert on this, but to get higher concentrations in a single pass you will need recirculation or the membrane will foul much quicker. I think you will want a unit that is capable of this plus higher pressures to produce enough flow to keep up. Mine cannot do much better than it's doing because I am pressure limited. I can get higher flows but at the expense of lower brix concentrate. Also, much above 230 PSI on mine, there's hardly any gain in permeate flow. The vessel is rated to 300 psi but I never go much above 220.

There's a lot of variables but talking to some manufacturers should clear it all up.
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