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Old February 19th, 2017, 08:30 PM
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Default membrane question

i have been doing alot of reading and have a few questions that i cant seem to find. I have a 4x40 membrane (new) from mes how many gallons should i run through it to rinse the membrane for the first time? and after i run sap through how much permeate do i run through to rinse? (Do i just rinse till the sugar is out of the membrane). Last question when i do a soap wash how many gallons do i use for a wash and how much soap i have ultrasil 10
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Old February 20th, 2017, 06:32 AM
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Your rinse should be the no less than your hourly flow rate. If it is a 100gph membrane... rinse with at least 100 gal.
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Old February 22nd, 2017, 07:32 PM
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Soap wash when your flow drops ......
I know some wash everytime they use it ......
I mix up 4 gallons of wash ... let it recirculate back into the bucket until it's mostly gone ......
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 07:19 PM
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I run a cold rinse with permeate for 5 minutes, into the head tank. Then I run 10 minutes on hot permeate rinse minimum , run concentrate and permeate back into wash tank. (hot is 105-110F and I reheat the permeate flow as necessary to remain at that temp, thru a tankless heater). Then I run a cold permeate rinse 5 min. minimum, concentrate to drain, but most often it goes 10-15 minutes. I run that sequence every time I run the RO. Most years I only need a soap wash after the season.
I had my membranes after using this method for 4 seasons and the report came back 0 sugar passage and 100% efficient so it must work.
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Old March 3rd, 2017, 10:14 AM
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The guys at MES also recommended the warm water rinse on my Dolly unit. I have hot water coming off a preheater, can a person dilute that out in some cold permeate to get warm wash water? The Dolly shuts down at 113 degrees so guessing warm water rinse should be done with about 100 degree water?
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Old March 10th, 2017, 03:14 PM
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Default I do the same with Preheat water

I do the same, I run a hose from my preheater to an insulated SS milk sink which I have plumbed in. I have a home built.. kinda... RO unit with MES membranes in it. The water coming off my preheater is 150, I run that straight into the wash tank and when its time to rinse my membranes I start the RO up. Now before everyone jumps on me for having the water too hot, its very short lived and once the cold rince permeate gets pushed into the SS milk sink, it quickly cools to the desired temp of 105-115, maybe not perfect but it works for me. OH, remember to replace the filter after your concentrate session is over and before you rinse with permeate. I reuse the rinse pre filter but use new filters every time I concentrate
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Old March 10th, 2017, 07:56 PM
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The hot condensate off the pre-heater will only be good to use if you do not get any sugar in it. On my rig the boiling in the flue pan is so hard that it jumps in the air, as a result, a very small amount of sugar lands in the perimeter drain channels on my hood. If your pail catching the drain condensation from the hood shows any signs of foaming on the surface, you might be better finding another source or at least skim off the bubbles and dispose of that.
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Old March 11th, 2017, 04:29 PM
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Hi maple flats, thanks for pointing that out. I periodically test the hot water coming off the pre heater tray for sugar and I have yet to measure any sugar. The tray is about 12 inches from the boil and I use defoamer in the back pan.

It Just made sense to finalally have a use for the hot water. If I want hotter water I just wait longer to do do the wash, but I got it down pat.
I love your idea of a tankless water heater though
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Old March 12th, 2017, 05:46 PM
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This is the one I use Eccotemp L10 Portable Outdoor Tankless Water Heater - 145247, Portable Toilets & Showers at Sportsman's Guide
It heats about 2.5 GPM as fast as it flows thru the unit. When shutting down, I drain both hoses and remove a drain plug in the bottom of the unit to be sure I won't have a damaged unit. I used to use one size smaller, it was OK but too slow for my liking. When I got this one, the smaller one got put in storage "just in case" it was needed. Last year I started reheating during the RO wash by sending the permeate flow back thru as the wash tank temp fell. That has worked great.
The only issue with the heater is that it eats batteries fairly quick. It uses them for ignition and must run continuous when drawing hot water. I seem to go thru a pair of good Duracell, or Eveready or Ray-O-Vac alkaline batteries about every 2-3 weeks. Aside from that it is great.
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Old March 12th, 2017, 08:24 PM
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For $80, I placed a 50 ft section of 1/2 '' stainless coil in the steam pipe, above the preheater in the flue pan. I divert some permeate, around 3-4 gallon a minute through the coil. The permeate is heated to near boiling from the steam from the flue pan. The hot permeate is stored in a 600 gallon insulated tank. When it comes time to wash, I start with cold permeate to flush the membranes. I slowly introduce the hot permeate into the feed line and will gradually bring the temperature up until its around 35-40 degrees. Works well with no cost to pump or heat the water. As well I get additional condensate from the coil in the steam pipe which is collected by the tray under the preheater.
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