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  #41  
Old February 13th, 2015, 05:10 PM
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I have been looking into building one of these units. With out recirculation I believe you want to run concentrate flows high on your membrane to keep from fouling and take what you get for water removal. One xle 4040 is rated max flow of 14 gpm. It seems anywhere around 10 gpm @150 psi you will get about the same water removal as 5 gpm @150 psi with less fouling. This is why home made without recirc pumpsunits typically run a few passes to the sap tank. I think 1 gpm permeate per 40 inch membrane is about what you get, which is pretty good.
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  #42  
Old February 13th, 2015, 05:23 PM
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I can honestly say you couldn't give me a 2.5" membrane and a 4" I might accept would go for 8" any time of the day.
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  #43  
Old February 13th, 2015, 05:59 PM
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Kevin.. im pretty sure these are 4 " xle. My build I had a 4" nf270. Using a multistage pressure pump.. if I dead headed it, it would push to almost 275 psi... and permeate would go to 1.75 gpm on single membrane for a moment then drop like a rock to .3 gmp in 10 sec time span. Pump and sap would get hot quick. I found that there was a sweet spot around 150-175 psi .. any pressure above that didnt remove any more water.. usually it would lead to decreases removal because the membrane would foul.

On start up with a clean membrane I would get 1.5 gpm o permeate.. within 3 min it would settle to 1 -1.2 gpm. And stay there till I was out of sap or had pushed past 8% as I recycled into the supply tank until ineeded more in the head tank.

@ 250 psi, I could run 1gpm permeate and 1gpm concentrate..for about 1 min before permeate would be @ .5.
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  #44  
Old February 13th, 2015, 06:35 PM
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Now sapholic you RO is what GPH you calling it. 4" is like 100gph max water flow?
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  #45  
Old February 13th, 2015, 09:13 PM
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Thinking back the person I know had (4) 4" membranes. This might be why I was thinking about higher flow rates.
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  #46  
Old March 23rd, 2015, 03:36 PM
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We got our homemade RO running this weekend and I was consistently finding that even running up the pressure to 225 psi my concentrate was running around 4-4.5 GPM and the permeate was running around 1.5-2.0 GPM. I have a single post 4" xle-4040 with a series 3 procon and a 3/4 HP motor being fed with a shallow well pump.

I was digging around and reading and found the instructions that whalems posted for Rays manual for the 500 GPH RO. One thing I noticed that was interesting is bullet number 4 on page 1 that says never run high pressure pump faster than 1500 RPMs.

Now I'm only a 3-days experienced on an RO, so please excuse my ignorance, but I'm having similar results like Dennis and many others that the concentrate GPM is double the permeate GPM (as I typed up above).

My question - is the 1500 RPM max speed critical for these units? Again, if this is an obvious question I do apologize, but I'm trying to figure out how to decrease the concentrate flow to get increased permeate output and more concentration on one pass like Kevin has said is important.
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  #47  
Old March 23rd, 2015, 03:50 PM
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Your not recirculating a portion of the concentrate back Ryan, your flows are very good. Keep it up! :D

Ray uses a different hp pump, I believe they are more like what you would find on pressure washers.
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  #48  
Old March 23rd, 2015, 04:06 PM
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The only way to decrease concentrate and increase permeate is to increase pressure. And I'm sure you have already found out it really doesn't help much. Those numbers are about all this setup will produce.
Add another xle 4040 and your in the ballgame.
Good to see you got it working. I smoked my pump about the same day you received that one.

Dirty sap and a cloth diaper on the prefilter are the presumed suspects. The prefilter was collapsed.
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  #49  
Old March 23rd, 2015, 05:13 PM
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Rhale,

I am running same unit you referred to Whalems posted manual on. The 1500 RPM max is for a gas RO, not the electric unit we both run. I run mine about 350 PSI first pas and I get about 5 to 6 permeate and 2 to 3 concentrate depending on sap temps and sugar. Ray says to run it at 375 PSI but I am fine with running mine at 350 PSI. After first pass which sends everything to head tank, I recirculate for a little while to get it to 10 to 12 percent concentrate and I try to run it around 325. When I start recirculating I am getting about 4 gpm permeate but it gets down close to 2 gpm when I quit.
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  #50  
Old March 23rd, 2015, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regor0 View Post
The only way to decrease concentrate and increase permeate is to increase pressure. And I'm sure you have already found out it really doesn't help much. Those numbers are about all this setup will produce.
That's exactly what I was finding. It was perplexing but it was so consistent that I eventually gave up and assumed that's just how it was going to run. Thanks again for getting me up and running with this thing, can't imagine boiling raw sap ever again!

Thanks for the clarification WVMapler!
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