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Old March 30th, 2014, 08:10 PM
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Default Help membranes passing sugar.

My brand new nf 90s membranes are passing sugar we have only used a few times I have only singled pass and have done a soap was three times so far but I don't have anything to test the ph and I thought lapierre soap was buffered so I have been putting in maybe a 1/4 cup to almost full wash tank. Also in I think one permete plug is missing one of he o rings not both just one. Do I need to do an acid wash?
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Old March 30th, 2014, 08:32 PM
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First things first. Look at the end caps off the membrane vessels for internal O-rings that are squished or twisted or missing=replace them. I assume your membrane has nipples? and no internal plugs that go inside the membrane? However look at that if they have o-rings.
The only way permeate can get sugars inside the permeate core of a membrane is if you have a BAD O-ring issue OR you have a BAD Membrane???

Stay away from food garde grease as that does not disolve very well and is not slippery like mineral oil or Glycerine. You will feel resistance when installing the end caps and also lube the outer caps end o-rings with glycerine.

Just have to think simplier then the membrane which works just like your perfilter water canister=1 end is blocked and the other end is the outlet which sap gets pushed through till in the center and then exits the Membrane/Filter.

look at all the o-rings and make sure they are in place and you got the caps on without a big tussle. Then see what you have coming out the permeate end?
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Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-stuff-vessel-002.jpg   Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-stuff-vessel-010.jpg  
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Old March 30th, 2014, 09:13 PM
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The only plug that goes in the membrane it the permeate plug I did the maybe it I am losing 1 gallon of syrup for every 1500 gallons of permeate
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Old March 31st, 2014, 07:15 AM
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So you probably have a 4" membrane? This is a bottom plug with a double o-ring nipple that is inserted into the membranes center core and the top you have a hollow core that is double o-ringed that is hollow for your permeate discharge leaving the membrane?

Like Haynes posted a while back=Tell us what you have (Membrane/Vessel wise) so we can help you better rather then hip shot guess about what you have.

Couple more pics of U-Cup and Membrane Top Hollow core outlet plug and bottom Solid Core plug.
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Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-top-bottom-001.jpg   Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-top-bottom-002.jpg  
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Old March 31st, 2014, 07:47 AM
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We have a lapierre 250 turbo the old style with solid plugs with two o rings. I will check this afternoon for messed up o rings also the u cup seal thing it thought it was weird that the metal thing with the plastic core just slid over that on the same end I put the plugs. Also is there an except able amount of sugar passage or should it be zero. Thanks for the help.
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Old March 31st, 2014, 08:03 AM
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The plug with the T handle like is your bottom plug and then you lube that up and insert into bottom of membrane and then you lube up outside o-ring and put on the U-Cup. On the top lube up the o-rings on the nipple and the outside O-Ring on the top cover to the vessel and lower that down onto the center of membrane and push down with both hands and it will almost seat/maybe 1/4" on my 600. Then put in the bolts and nuts through the top cover and tighten down.

Like i said earlier you either have a bad O-ring/Nicked, Scratched, Twisted that is on the nipple ends or the membrane went bad? THIS is the only way sugar will get to the center permeate core of the membrane.

If you had a problem with the U-cup O-ring it will only effect the guidance of the Recirculation of sap through the membrane and NOT have any effect at all with sap entering the center core.

They say some new membranes will pass a wisker of sugar until used a few hours and washed but it sounds like you have already used the membrane a few times and washed with Sodium Hydroxide (Soap) if that is what the membrane manufacture recommends on a NF90? (I Need to figure out why i cannot see previous post while replying to thread?) Acid wash will help shrink the membrane pores and maybe might help if it is still passing sugar for some reason?)
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Old March 31st, 2014, 08:13 AM
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Forgot to reply earlier about the soap wash=on 10 gals of wash water in my 600 tank i would only need a 1 Oz cup of wash soap to bring the PH of the wash up to about 10.5. So you might need about a teaspoon of Lapierre Powdered Soap/Sodium Hydroxide in 15 gals of water and not 1/4 of a container.

Pic of Approx soap amount needed in wash tank=syrup sample cup and PH of wash water after soap recirculated for about 10 min and last pic is of an acid wash/and yes you only need about an 1Oz of that too? to get the Ph by 3 or 2 if the membrane can handle it?
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Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-pics-003.jpg   Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-pics-004.jpg   Help membranes passing sugar.-ro-pics-007.jpg  
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Old March 31st, 2014, 09:33 AM
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Thanks for the help I have only ran sap thru for maybe 6-8 maybe even 11 or 12 hours and have washed it three times I will check the prints I know I am missing one on the plug with the t handle I will chech today hopefully one is just twisted cause it looks like this week is the week to make a lot of syrup. Thanks again for the help.
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Old March 31st, 2014, 12:42 PM
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500592 -make sure you don"t have the "U" shaped seal on the bottom under the cup on backwards. the u should be down and it will be a challenge to put the cup on if the seal is on right.

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Old March 31st, 2014, 05:08 PM
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Jim the U-Cup O-Ring will not have any effect on the membrane passing sugar into the permeate as i have mentioned before it's only purpose is to seal the U-Cup to the membrane to aid in Recirculation.
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