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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:27 PM
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Default ro room setup

So we have 95% of the out door stuff completed, so I now am moving to the inside....in particular my new RO room. But running into a little snag.....I never actually have been able to look at a functioning ro room. so my main ro room is 4x12 with a drain in the floor, and a drain in the wall like a washer and dryer would use. It is heavily insulation from floor to ceiling, but here comes the debate. I do have additional space directly behind my room in which I could I could place 2 cage totes for permeate, or I could double stack them in the ro room. so here is the question.
1. how much room do you need for an RO room......oh by the way I'm talking about Lapierre 600gph unit for sizing reference.
2. does the permeate area have to be as insulated as the ro room itself
3. I know this seems to be a topic of debate, but how much permeate do I actually need???? will 2 larger cage totes be enough?? (300 gal each)
4. I know Andy had a great calculator for heat needed in a room, but what do you guys that have an existing RO room use for your heat source

Any help here will be greatly appreciated, and I love pictures even more.........and please don't tell me to ask my local Lapierre dealer for set up help cause in his eyes I'm already committing flavor suicide by purchasing an RO (nice huh)
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:32 PM
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Whats an RO?
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rdgen.maple View Post
Whats an RO?
pathetic


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Old September 20th, 2013, 05:35 AM
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Jake,
I don't keep permeate tanks inside an insulated area.Permeate is generally used before it has a chance to freeze. That said, you do have the space available (until you expand your RO's)to put them inside and eliminate a potential problem. My RO room is also 4x12 and contains 2 600's and a 900. It is tight but we all know that our structures are never built big enough. Small is easier heated. I use 2 small electric heaters as heat source. each is plugged in a different circuit in case a breaker goes. I also have a portable kerosene heater available. How much permeate do you "need"? I'm in the all you can keep camp. I have 3000 gallon storage for my machines and still dump some over the hill. I know people who have 500 gallon storage for a 600 gallon machine and seem to have no problems so you will be ok with the 600 gallons you are planning on.
I don't do pictures so I can't help you there. I am open to showing you my set-up. I'm only 45 minutes away.
Doug
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Old September 20th, 2013, 08:26 AM
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My RO room is 8x10. I have a 225 RO and about 500 gallons of permeate storage in there. I like having extra unfrozen permeate around. If I have a low sap day I still have enough to rinse. I also have my electric pressure in there connected to permeate for washing tanks. My RO shed is built into the ground in a bank and does not use "heat". It has never gotten below 38 in there
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Old September 20th, 2013, 09:11 AM
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Moser I have the CDL 600 and I have it in my main room and have it close to the wall but have plenty of room on the other 3 walls. I have my Permeate tanks outside. I would use 4 cage tanks so you can really do a lot of rinsing during the day. I plumbed all mine with slide valves off Ebay. I isolated all the tanks from one another so I can isolate them during wash or rinse so I don't screw up and drain them all. I also can do a rinse with just one tank and head out for sap and the machine will shut down automatically. I used heat tape and insulation on all the PVC from the wall out. I fill the first tank in the top and draw from the bottom. I open all the valves on the empty tanks and the permeate fills the first tank and it flows to all others. You don't want to put undue pressure on the pumps by pumping into the bottom. I also increased my storage to 5 tanks so I can also use it for cleaning the evap.

If you were spending all day in the shack cooking and cleaning you will now be down to 4 hrs. You will spend more time cleaning the evap BUT its because you will have the time and desire to do it. because of the concentrate from the RO you wont mind emping your entire evap into separate containers and filling power washing it with Permeate and getting back to cooking and drawing off within a hour. Its a whole different world using the RO. As I said before they are Anti social because you will start processing 1500 gallons of raw sap and then call a few friends to come over by the time they get off their butts and drive over your pumping it into a barrel.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 09:36 PM
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Last year my 600 ro was set up temporarily in a 8x12 space which included 3 cage tanks. I had 600 gallon permeate storage.

This year it will be permanently housed in a 8x12 addition.

I will be using 4 cage tanks for permeate mounted outside on the back wall. They will be above the pump, plumbed individually for separate use as stated . Mine are 275 gallons each. Permeate does work awesome for cleaning so I want more.

Heat for the room is radiant in the concrete.Heat source is from a oil fired hot water heater. Now I have heat and hot water.

RO is awesome. Once you see that permeate line cranking out pure water it will slap you in the face.... all that would be steam, work, oil or wood.... you just gained some free time my friend.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 12:10 AM
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One of the smaller rooms I have seen is about 3 x 7 just south of you at Bruce's place as I remember. 6 x 6 can work well. and any thing over 6 x 8 is more then enough. Some producers will keep the releaser and vacuum pump if it is electric in the same room. Keep the room from freezing at all times during the season 42 deg at floor level is more then enough. Don't let your membrane freeze at any cost. Permeate can be outside just don't let it freeze. But outside your wash cycle may take longer. It is one of the products I would use a food grade plastic tank to same money if you can't afford SS. Concentrate is often over head near the evaporator almost always ss with gravity feeding the input control to your evaporator.
Your RO can easily lift sap 15 or more vertically.
The lowest cost heater I have seen is a small propane heater designed for wall mount about 12 x 18 or a little smaller. Contact FW Webb. Submit your farm exemption and it will be exempt.
600 Gallons is acceptable I like a little extra like 900 permeate is a great pan cleaner.
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Old September 21st, 2013, 04:28 PM
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I priced the smallest wall hung Propane heater at FW WEBB in Springfield VT.
It was $800. Cant remember the btu but it was the smallest .

My plumber buddy found my almost new oil fired hot water heater in a second home that was getting a completely new system for..... wait for it....... wait for it.......FREE.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 06:37 PM
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so here is the completed ro room set up
the room size is 4x10 inside demensions
we did 2x layer 2in rigid board insulation on the floor, ceiling, walls, and door.
i can keep it a nice 50 degrees inside the room when the addition is not being heated and the outdoor temp is -15 so no frozen parts for me
we will have 2 heat bulbs, and a nice little quartz heater with thermostat that i picked up on ebay for $180. this heater will be my primary heat, and what kept the room warm during the cold snaps to see if it had the intestinal fortitude to heat the room.
if i had a do over.... i would have probably gone 5 feet wide for our setup, but I still have plenty of room to add a second tower if I ever so choose... here are the pics!!!
BTW the last pic is why we are not tapping yet lol
Attached Thumbnails
ro room setup-ro-room-1.jpg   ro room setup-ro-room-2.jpg   ro room setup-ro-room-3-.jpg   ro room setup-ro-room-4.jpg   ro room setup-stuck-sled-.jpg  

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Jake Moser
Moser's Maple


24x68 sugar house
2 beautiful little girls
4x8 chicken mansion for wife's 13 chickens
1 wife that's becoming her mother
1 70 year old father that will always critique everything


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