Classified Ads Photo Gallery Message Boards Sugarbush Directory Sugarmaker Journals Live Chat News & Events
  #1  
Old February 10th, 2017, 07:26 AM
jimsudz's Avatar
2013 Calendar Contest Winner
Producer
 
Location: Bennington NY
Number of Taps: 700
Join Date: Dec 2011
Classified Ads: 4
Photos: 44
Posts: 533
Thanked 98 Times
  View my photos   View my ads  
Default Recirc loop on home build RO

For those of you that have recirc on their home build RO can you give some tips. The does and don'ts. Diagrams would be helpful. Any older posts would be appropriated.
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sudzy...66440096710159
30 x 8 lapierre raised flue pans on airtight arch
wes fab full bank 7" press

https://youtu.be/cK7V6VG2B_k
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 10th, 2017, 08:16 AM
Maple Flats's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Oneida, NY
Number of Taps: 850
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 657
Thanked 175 Times
 
Default

My RO is not homemade but it is very basic. Just infront of your concentrate flow meter plumb in a needle valve with a small (mine is 5/16 or maybe 3/8 diameter braided tube) and tie that back into the line feeding the high pressure pump. No extra pump needed, you recirculate more or less depending on how much open you set the needle valve. You do want a well made needle valve, not a cheap Chinese one.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Maple Flats For This Post:
jimsudz (February 10th, 2017)
  #3  
Old February 10th, 2017, 11:39 AM
wishlist's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Lennon, Michigan
Number of Taps: 900
Join Date: Feb 2012
Classified Ads: 2
Photos: 3
Posts: 1,707
Thanked 210 Times
  View my photos   View my ads  
Default

Jim I had a conversation about a recirc loop with a leader rep and also Carl Lapierre. What flats said is correct but I was told it really wouldn't matter which way we recirculate with the homebuilds , a loop or just recirc with a concentrate tank . What I'm thinking next year is sell the 3 membranes and vessels and go with a 8 " xle and add a procon to recirculate in the loop . That will do 2 things , get a higher % concentrate quicker and keep the membrane from fouling with higher flows .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wishlist For This Post:
jimsudz (February 10th, 2017)
  #4  
Old February 10th, 2017, 12:04 PM
Member
Producer
 
Location: Barnet, VT
Number of Taps: 2100
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 892
Thanked 131 Times
 
Default

Recirculation built into a machine makes higher flow through the membrane, which helps keep membrane from fouling. Not the same as recirculating through a tank.
__________________
William Warden
3 X 12 Thor pans on homemade arch
1986 Seprotech 900
About 900 of my own and sap from another 1200
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Wiam For This Post:
jimsudz (February 10th, 2017)
  #5  
Old February 10th, 2017, 12:15 PM
Urban Sugarmaker's Avatar
Member
Producer
 
Location: Rochester, NY
Number of Taps: 180
Join Date: Oct 2014
Classified Ads: 1
Posts: 117
Thanked 18 Times
  View my ads  
Default

My concentrate flows out of the membrane then tees to a recirc line that goes back to the high pressure pump feed, and the other to the concentrate flow meter. Each of these lines is controlled by a needle valve.

The plumbing is really simple. With this setup you can easily get permeate flows to exceed concentrate flows.

I flushed my RO last night with water, but I will have a better idea of how it's working with sap hopefully this Sunday. This is my second year with the RO but I added the second needle valve this year.
__________________
WF Mason 2x4 XL w/ AUF/AOF
Home-built auto draw off
Home-built single XLE-4040 RO w/ PLC control
20'x20' Garage converted to sugar house
120 taps for 2016
https://www.facebook.com/flowercitymaple
Ask me how I am paying off my mortgage in less than 7 years and how you can too. PM me.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Urban Sugarmaker For This Post:
jimsudz (February 10th, 2017)
  #6  
Old February 10th, 2017, 01:40 PM
jimsudz's Avatar
2013 Calendar Contest Winner
Producer
 
Location: Bennington NY
Number of Taps: 700
Join Date: Dec 2011
Classified Ads: 4
Photos: 44
Posts: 533
Thanked 98 Times
  View my photos   View my ads  
Default

I always recirc back to storage tank. Want to be able to just try to get from2%-6% and feed head tank and boil. My RO builds to much pressure when I try so slow down the concentrate flow. Can only get down to 4.75 gpm on con side and 1.75 gpm on permeate side. Try to run at 275 psi or less.
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sudzy...66440096710159
30 x 8 lapierre raised flue pans on airtight arch
wes fab full bank 7" press

https://youtu.be/cK7V6VG2B_k
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 10th, 2017, 05:51 PM
wishlist's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Lennon, Michigan
Number of Taps: 900
Join Date: Feb 2012
Classified Ads: 2
Photos: 3
Posts: 1,707
Thanked 210 Times
  View my photos   View my ads  
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiam View Post
Recirculation built into a machine makes higher flow through the membrane, which helps keep membrane from fouling. Not the same as recirculating through a tank.
Built into the machine with an additional way to increase flow like a pump . Think of it this way , say your HP pump is rated for 4 gpm. The pump doesn't care where the inlet is from ,the tank or the concentrate side of the membrane . Tee off of the concentrate side of the membrane and feed it into the inlet of the HP pump your still only getting 4 gpm thru the membrane . That's why they use an additional pump to recirculate.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 10th, 2017, 06:11 PM
jimsudz's Avatar
2013 Calendar Contest Winner
Producer
 
Location: Bennington NY
Number of Taps: 700
Join Date: Dec 2011
Classified Ads: 4
Photos: 44
Posts: 533
Thanked 98 Times
  View my photos   View my ads  
Default

So Bob do you think I will be wasting my time not using an additional pump?
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sudzy...66440096710159
30 x 8 lapierre raised flue pans on airtight arch
wes fab full bank 7" press

https://youtu.be/cK7V6VG2B_k
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 10th, 2017, 07:27 PM
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Negaunee MI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 631
Thanked 116 Times
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimsudz View Post
So Bob do you think I will be wasting my time not using an additional pump?
I would put it in. It only costs a few bucks and a few minutes. I think you'll find it makes a difference. Definitely not as much as with a pump in the loop, but every little bit of extra flow across the membrane helps.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 10th, 2017, 09:29 PM
sapaholic's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Potter County, Pa
Number of Taps: 1300
Join Date: Dec 2011
Photos: 1
Posts: 468
Thanked 95 Times
  View my photos  
Default

Jim... whatbis the flow rate of your current pump @ the pressure you are using?
__________________
2x6 grimm raised flue
4x40 R/O
new 18x24 sugarhouse
2 sugar makers in training
Very understanding wife
Reply With Quote
Reply  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 

The total tap count of our members is now: 2,753,283

Copyright ©2009~2019 Sugarbush Info