Classified Ads Photo Gallery Message Boards Sugarbush Directory Sugarmaker Journals Live Chat News & Events
  #1  
Old January 14th, 2017, 10:33 PM
Member
Producer


 
Location: North Clarendon Vt
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 71
Thanked 3 Times
 
Default Preheater build

I am in the process of making a preheater. What size pipe should I use,should I do 1 bank or 2? My flue pan is 6' long by 2' wide. What do I need to make the lengths of tubing at? 6'? And how many across? I can use copper tubing with elbows, is that right? I have a diagram I printed that gives the basics for building one just didn't no if anyone has any tips. Also can you use the shark bite fittings for the preheater instead of soldering? It would be really convenient taking it apart or doing some minor adjustments. I just don't no how the shark bite fittings would work,they work for plumbing just fine. Any advice would be much appreciated

Sent from my SM-J320VPP using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 15th, 2017, 03:05 PM
Maple Flats's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Oneida, NY
Number of Taps: 850
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 657
Thanked 175 Times
 
Default

I made one years ago using 3/4" tube manifolds and 1/2" tube for the length all in copper. It had 5 runs in length and the whole unit just fit in the hood. I made a drain tray out of .015 Aluminum sheet. That was on a 2x6 with a 3' flue pan.
On my current evap. I used boiler manifolds similar to this 9 Port 1/2" PEX Plumbing Manifold (Copper) by Sioux Chief 672X0990 CLOSED | eBay except mine was 1" header and 8 x 1/2" takeoffs for soldering. Then I used 52" long 1/2" tubing from one end to the other. At that end I used an elbow and then a T to make a return pass. The T was in one end and out the side, the other end has a vent. From there I have a second manifold which runs back to the point where the first originated, but a few inches higher. Each of two tiers run uphill about 2" from start to finish. This is in a 5' hood since my 3x6 has a 3x3 syrup and a 3x5 flue pan. It was not easy to get positioned but I got it. The whole assembly rides in a tilted drain pan, with the manifold bottom layer about 2" above the drain pan and that drains into the gutter around the edge of the hood. With this set up I get temps up to about 175 into the float box in the flue pan until the auto draw opens, then it falls to about 125-130. When the auto draw closes it takes a couple of minutes to get up to about the 170-175 range. I just does not heat quite fast enough for when the auto draw opens, but it helps plenty.
I think if I had found a manifold with 3/4" outlets instead of 1/2" I might have made a good difference.
If you look for the manifolds, I find Ebay usually the lowest, then you want ones designed for sweating copper and not Pex. Watch the prices, there seems to be a huge range even with similar specs. For example, when I bought mine 2 years ago, I paid $20.50 each and others had the same size well over $150 and some over $200. Mine were new, not used.
__________________
1320 taps on vacuum, 2015, 700 in 2016, 750 for 2017,
up to 850 in 2018
2012 Mahindra tractor/cab/loader/AC
www.cnymaple.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 15th, 2017, 03:18 PM
Member
Producer


 
Location: North Clarendon Vt
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 71
Thanked 3 Times
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple Flats View Post
I made one years ago using 3/4" tube manifolds and 1/2" tube for the length all in copper. It had 5 runs in length and the whole unit just fit in the hood. I made a drain tray out of .015 Aluminum sheet. That was on a 2x6 with a 3' flue pan.
On my current evap. I used boiler manifolds similar to this 9 Port 1/2" PEX Plumbing Manifold (Copper) by Sioux Chief 672X0990 CLOSED | eBay except mine was 1" header and 8 x 1/2" takeoffs for soldering. Then I used 52" long 1/2" tubing from one end to the other. At that end I used an elbow and then a T to make a return pass. The T was in one end and out the side, the other end has a vent. From there I have a second manifold which runs back to the point where the first originated, but a few inches higher. Each of two tiers run uphill about 2" from start to finish. This is in a 5' hood since my 3x6 has a 3x3 syrup and a 3x5 flue pan. It was not easy to get positioned but I got it. The whole assembly rides in a tilted drain pan, with the manifold bottom layer about 2" above the drain pan and that drains into the gutter around the edge of the hood. With this set up I get temps up to about 175 into the float box in the flue pan until the auto draw opens, then it falls to about 125-130. When the auto draw closes it takes a couple of minutes to get up to about the 170-175 range. I just does not heat quite fast enough for when the auto draw opens, but it helps plenty.
I think if I had found a manifold with 3/4" outlets instead of 1/2" I might have made a good difference.
If you look for the manifolds, I find Ebay usually the lowest, then you want ones designed for sweating copper and not Pex. Watch the prices, there seems to be a huge range even with similar specs. For example, when I bought mine 2 years ago, I paid $20.50 each and others had the same size well over $150 and some over $200. Mine were new, not used.
So you think it would be better with 3/4 tubing? Is that what your saying? Now so i have to buy a manifold? I see some preheaters built with no manifold and just elbows at the end of each row. What is the difference, I am curious? Does it matter?


Sent from my SM-J320VPP using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 16th, 2017, 10:43 AM
Member
Producer
 
Location: Embrun
Number of Taps: 300
Join Date: Feb 2012
Photos: 2
Posts: 75
Thanked 10 Times
  View my photos  
Default

For a copper preheater over the flue pan, it it always necessary to have a drip pan under it? How much moisture builds up?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 16th, 2017, 11:40 AM
sapaholic's Avatar
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Potter County, Pa
Number of Taps: 1300
Join Date: Dec 2011
Photos: 1
Posts: 468
Thanked 95 Times
  View my photos  
Default

You can use tees instead of elbows to create a manifold effect.
Yes, a drip pan is necessary if you wish to see any gains in boil rate. On a 2x4 flue pan you can easily get 5+ gal/hr condensate off the preheater tubes.
__________________
2x6 grimm raised flue
4x40 R/O
new 18x24 sugarhouse
2 sugar makers in training
Very understanding wife
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 16th, 2017, 12:05 PM
Member
Producer


 
Location: North Clarendon Vt
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 71
Thanked 3 Times
 
Default

What I meant was i thought I see pics of some preheater that just have elbows at the end of eacj row.

Sent from my SM-J320VPP using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 17th, 2017, 08:35 AM
Member
Producer


 
Location: North Clarendon Vt
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 71
Thanked 3 Times
 
Default



Sent from my SM-J320VPP using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 17th, 2017, 08:35 AM
Member
Producer


 
Location: North Clarendon Vt
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 71
Thanked 3 Times
 
Default

I mean what is the difference with manifold or just using elbows like this pic?

Sent from my SM-J320VPP using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 17th, 2017, 09:27 AM
Contributing Member
Producer
 
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
Number of Taps: 200
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 216
Thanked 44 Times
 
Default

Both will work to varying degrees. With a manifold, the flow is divided into parallel paths and is very low velocity, so each picks up heat well along its way and rejoins at the other end. That is a good place to put a vent, since some gasses can be generated with the heating even though it is not boring. The vent works a little better if the tubing is sloped up so any air runs to the outlet manifold. A bubble can cause an airlock and stop your flow with disastrous results.

This can be a bigger problem with the serpentine serial flow. Air is generated along the entire length and collects together, increasing the chance of trouble. Sloping it becomes a problem since each length needs to slope up in the direction of flow, so it looks like Lombard street.

A zig zag serial preheater came with my first hood and it worked a little better because it was installed with the tubes one above the other and each was slightly sloped, but I eventually changed to parallel and it worked better. ( less venting needed )

If I was to make one, I'd go with 3/4 Tees and 1/2 tubes in parallel.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 17th, 2017, 09:46 AM
Member
Producer


 
Location: North Clarendon Vt
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 71
Thanked 3 Times
 
Default

Ok so should I used 3/4 tubing and tees at the end of every row ,and it has to slope at 5% and put a petcock at the end of were it goes to the flue pan, correct?

Sent from my SM-J320VPP using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bparker295 For This Post:
sweetvt (January 17th, 2017)
Reply  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 

The total tap count of our members is now: 2,753,283

Copyright ©2009~2019 Sugarbush Info