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Old February 7th, 2014, 09:00 AM
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Default Stack Preheater

Not sure if it will work, Have used coil on outside of stace in past with moderate success. GOing to try this one inside the stack. It will have a seperate drain valve to ensure there is always flow within the coil. I have also made it shorter as i think there will be more heat transfer that the outside coil system.

What are your thoughts? Success or failure?
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:37 AM
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I believe that is the best most successful way to super heat liquids using the heat that is not going to be of use in the arch. I also know that you can end up with a very dangerous situation if you don't have enough flow to keep it cool..................WHAT.

What your building is a crude boiler and should be designed as such. Not knowing your flow rate its hard to say LOOKS GOOD DO IT. What can and will happen is if you don't have enough flow through the coil the sap will boil. underestimating the power of steam is folly so be careful. When boiling if the float stops feeding the hot sap into the evap sap will boil producing steam that will escape from the coil and when you get steam all cooling will stop and you will get more steam and burning. Im sure you have seen what happens to a radiator/engine that overheats its a scary scenario when it happens to your head tank and float valve. I have seen engines over heat with a bad thermostat and cap making hoses bulge and collapse and the radiator distort. that's when you

Lastly I made a few systems just like in your picture. I used the coil to circulate water by way of pump into a heat exchanger that transfer the heat to the sap. I made the mistake of not turning on the circulator pump and I had a pissed off steam spitting Geyser like old faithful.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haynes Forest Products View Post
I believe that is the best most successful way to super heat liquids using the heat that is not going to be of use in the arch. I also know that you can end up with a very dangerous situation if you don't have enough flow to keep it cool..................WHAT.

What your building is a crude boiler and should be designed as such. Not knowing your flow rate its hard to say LOOKS GOOD DO IT. What can and will happen is if you don't have enough flow through the coil the sap will boil. underestimating the power of steam is folly so be careful. When boiling if the float stops feeding the hot sap into the evap sap will boil producing steam that will escape from the coil and when you get steam all cooling will stop and you will get more steam and burning. Im sure you have seen what happens to a radiator/engine that overheats its a scary scenario when it happens to your head tank and float valve. I have seen engines over heat with a bad thermostat and cap making hoses bulge and collapse and the radiator distort. that's when you

Lastly I made a few systems just like in your picture. I used the coil to circulate water by way of pump into a heat exchanger that transfer the heat to the sap. I made the mistake of not turning on the circulator pump and I had a pissed off steam spitting Geyser like old faithful.
Thanks for the advise Haynes, and yes I know all about steam and its force. My old coil had the problem of boiling in the coil once or twice a year, we would hear the bubbles hitting the head tank. So I came up with a vent tube that "t's" off before it goes in the coil. The vent tube ran up 6" higher than the top of my tank. It was a clear pipe, which also acted as a sap gauge for my tank, I marked of at 10 Gallon marks and was able to calculate my flow rate. I also have a 2nd drain on the output that allows me to ensure there is always a flow through the coil. Even if my float has stopped during start-up and shutdown.

This season I will see how it works out and Shorten the coil if I find it is exiting to HOT!

Thanks for the input :)
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Old February 7th, 2014, 04:00 PM
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Sappy sounds like you have played with it before so you know a few of the "what ifs" The one thing I didn't try was circulating the sap back to the head tank and then through a conventional preheater
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Old February 7th, 2014, 04:00 PM
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Hey Sappy Mapleman - Thanks for the idea. It has always bothered me going outside to check my feed tank level. I will put a Tee in my feed tank line to my evaporator sap pan with a clear tube running upward inside the shack higher than the top of the feed tank outside. It will be my feed tank level sight glass and line vent. Glad I read Your sap preheater idea. ----Mike----
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Old February 7th, 2014, 05:12 PM
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Sappy, where does this second drain route the warmed sap?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haynes Forest Products View Post
Sappy sounds like you have played with it before so you know a few of the "what ifs" The one thing I didn't try was circulating the sap back to the head tank and then through a conventional preheater
Haynes - I hope Sappy gives us an update on this experiment. I follow what You are suggesting - Have the flow come from the feed tank into the bottom of the coil and up through the coil and back to the feed tank. It would heat the sap in the feed tank and keep a constant flow through the copper coil in the stack keeping the copper coil from melting. Might need a small pump to keep the continuous flow going. If Happy has a forced draft arch and the flow in the coil was shut off from time to time - say by a float control - the copper tubing could get into trouble in a hurry by the temperatures present in the stack. But - always fun to experiment. ---Mike---
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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:47 AM
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Ausable I wouldn't do it without a circulating pump like this.




I used a BG Bronze pump that I took the housing odd and sand blasted the paint out of. You could have two lines running 1 from preheater back to tank 2 A bigger one to your float box. I wouldn't heat sap and then NOT boil it because of the rapid Bacteria growth of warm sap. It wont happen in an hour but overnight yea.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:55 AM
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Sappy Maple Man,
I am in the process of replacing my old head tank(tote) with a 250 gallon SS tank. Looks like a tall bathtub. I am fitting it with a sight gauge made of 1/2 inch clear polycarbonate pipe. Pretty cheap at US Plastics. I intend to slip several O rings over the pipe, as moveable markers. I will calculate what an inch is in gallons, then I can easily move an Oring to the start point on the sight glass, look at the clock, then measure the inches an hour later and see what I did.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 11:00 AM
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If and when you decide to make a coil like I have and you walk behind the shop and find the Nicest straightest roundest prettiest closest tree in all the world that measures 10" in diameter and you wrap your 3/4" soft copper around it just like a production machine and then you look up.

Now a few tricks so you don't kink your tubing. If you can find a pulley use it as a mandrel to keep the sides from crushing down or kinking. Soft copper will bend very easy with heat NOT TO MUCH. If you have a router table you can make a pattern with groove cut in it. Lastly crimp end over and solder water tight. fill with water or veggie oil NO AIR BUBBLES gently crimp end then fold over twice and flatten with vice put vice grip on fold and then bend around pulley or pattern. DO NOT HEAT This is how Harley Davidson bends the frames for the sport bike only way to get good tight bends

Last edited by Haynes Forest Products; February 8th, 2014 at 11:27 AM.
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